electronics

hello,
i have been looking at this, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ULTIMATE-Split-Charge-System_W0QQitemZ280108039315QQihZ018QQcategoryZ14932QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
i am wanting to create a dual battery setup in pinky, do i need this? ^

i will keep a fire exstinguisher at the ready as my electrical back ground isnt amazing.

and im having random ideas about fitting two spot lights to the rear of the the landy, and using a three way switch so that i can turn them on using a switch and use them as reversing lights so when i put it in reverse they come on, as suggested by tim from mud club.

any suggestions?

cheers kieran

kieran wrote:

hello,
i have been looking at this, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ULTIMATE-Split-Charge-System_W0QQitemZ280108039315QQihZ018QQcategoryZ14932QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
i am wanting to create a dual battery setup in pinky, do i need this?

Find out from the seller if it's a diode based system (Has a voltage drop) or MOSFET based (No voltage drop).

Voltage drop is bad.
See http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22split+charge%22+diode+%22voltage+drop%22

kieran wrote:

and im having random ideas about fitting two spot lights to the rear of the the landy, and using a three way switch so that i can turn them on using a switch and use them as reversing lights so when i put it in reverse they come on, as suggested by tim from mud club.

That's really easy, and cheap, to do (£2 relay, £2 switch). Rather than spot lights (which might be pointing either side of that tree behind you), or fog lights (which tend to illuminate only a strip), wide angle work lights would be better.

My chappy says this
Hope it helps.

The split charge is ok, but if you're running a winch off the second battery the loads can go over 400Amps, as the split charge is only capable of 270Amps, it could kill it.
However, I will say, if you fit 2 identical batteries rather than a split charge, it'll work fine.

bofa bill wrote:

The split charge is ok, but if you're running a winch off the second battery the loads can go over 400Amps, as the split charge is only capable of 270Amps, it could kill it.

Winch? It's for his teeny-pop music, not anything practical

I was thinking about this on the train after work...

bofa bill wrote:

My chappy says this
Hope it helps.

The split charge is ok, but if you're running a winch off the second battery the loads can go over 400Amps, as the split charge is only capable of 270Amps, it could kill it.

How many Land Rovers have an alternator that can deliver 270 amps?

Sterling Power have 12v 140A units for £212...
Onboard Energy do a 210Amp unit for £1100...
Lara Landy had a "large" 120A unit, I believe.

Only sensible way to get 270A from the engine is with 2 alternators .... in which case, why would you need a split charge system?

bofa bill wrote:

My chappy says this
Hope it helps.

The split charge is ok, but if you're running a winch off the second battery the loads can go over 400Amps, as the split charge is only capable of 270Amps, it could kill it.
However, I will say, if you fit 2 identical batteries rather than a split charge, it'll work fine.

No, No, No... Winch is driven from main battery and then you dont need to worry about the relay capacity....

Kieren,
Do you really need a split charge system, or are you just led to believe you do?

I believe the type you have found on ebay are voltage-drop type so you batteries are never 100% charged.

What do you want the extra power for? I presume its for extra external lights, electrical equipment inside the car etc etc...

You may be better simply upgrading your lead-acid starter battery to a more suitable one. This isnt a plug but 1 x Odyssey PC1700 would probably give you more than enough power for your demands, going down the scale a bit perhaps you could get away winth a single Optima yellow top... Saving all the hassle, expense and complication of proper dual system.

Just a thought...

Hi Kieran,

Recently been through these thoughts myself, accelerated by the fact that the battery in the Landy failed on a couple of cold mornings – persuading the family that they did want to go away in the Landy over Christmas would not have been possible if it didn’t start reliably !!

After some discussion with John and looking around at what was on offer, opted for the Odyssey Battery and the Battery Management system that Venture Overland sell.

The first time I turned the key once the Odyssey was fitted the Landy was scared into life and it has been the same every time since.

As for the Battery Management System – this is a good few pounds more than the item on ebay and did cause me some deliberation when purchasing :?: :?: , but it appears to be good. The ability to see the condition of both batteries at any time, the option to manually switch one or both together and a constant view of the Charge Voltage when the vehicle is running is a good thing. Couple this with the fact that when the alternator is not running there is a definite separation of the batteries by a 180 AMP relay, it gives me a lot of confidence that I will be able to start the Landy even if I have flattered one of the batteries. With this set up I do not have to worry about what the AUX items are doing, if they flatten the AUX battery, there is the main battery to get you started. At the moment I have the original battery set up as the AUX until I need more power or it gives up.

If you are interested I have a couple of photos that I can send you of the instal but the details on John’s site here http://ventureoverland.com/Electrical.html are as good as any.

Hope this helps and gives you another view – probably just confuses the matter further

hello,
only just had the time to sit and read through the amazing response do to exam preparation and 18th birthday partys that seem to be happening every 2 days dont worry tom i have washed and worn the orange jumper for all occasions

what i am looking for as andy bloke so nicely describes as my teeny pop music is the ability to tune the engine off and still be able to run every thing like the cool box for all of the beer i owe Andy Bloke for his amazing amounts of help he has given me, and run spot lights for seeing whats going on around the BBQ at night like like on the Short way rounds landy ( whats your Landys name steve, and i had a good idea for broad casting announcements like we did at abingdon ) i want to be able to do all of this and then be happy that pinky will turn on as normal in the morning. these things are all useful for landy rally as we never arrived in daylight
likely to be the same this year as i now seem to have a team of four

bring on september :bball:

and many many thanks for the advice, all the more welcome so i can get the cooler for your beer

good night from a tired kieran after 2 18th birthday partys in one night


kieran

Kieren,
If you wanted it for just the fridge then 1 good battery would be sufficient... However, when you add spot lights into the fray, you may be a little short on oomph!

Heres another thought...

2 x Odyssey PC1700's connected together (12V configuration, not 24V!!) without a split charge system in the middle....

Why????

Firstly, for 99% of the time you are not going to be alone in the middle of nowhere - in the event that you do flatten the batteries, so long as you have jump leads you'll be away again.
Secondly, it'll save you a chunk of cash which you can put towards more powerful batteries.
Thirdly, should you decide in time to come that you do NEED a split charge system, simply connect one to your existing batteries.

As to why I suggested Odyssey's: Several reasons. I really do believe they are the best battery available for what we want PLUS they give the most power, both in terms of CA and Ah's in the one box. Oh, and 2 look cool sat side by side in a Defender battery box!

If you want to talk the pro's and cons of all this over, feel free to give me a call.

Hi all, thoght i'd throw in my two penny's worth!

Also, my Landy doesn't have a name - it's a car....!

I have 2 exidde maxxima 900's in my disco, they were in the i nthink a few yers ago when i bought them, and i really like them, never had a problem with them so far...!

I have them connected on a very simple split charge, a 180amp relay which is activated by the feed from the alternator, so they are connected when it charges.

I also have a switch to manually connect the relay, which means i can jump start, working on the basis that it takes less than 180amp to jump start.

Most of my anncillerys are connected to the second battery, so if i leave them on, i don't touch the main battery, although when not in use, they are isolated. The winch is connected to the main battery, as thats the law according to the gospel that is written by David Bowyer - winch god.

It all works, never had an issue, can always start, and doesn't blow fuses. The split charge system cost about £15 and is so simple, if it did fail, it can be bypassed or replaced easily.

dpending on budget etc, you can sort out a good system, the main bit is to get batterys worth having, exides, oddyssey, what ever, then just make sure you look after them well.
I also swap mine every so often, just to make sure they both get full charges direct from the alternator, get a good amount of use, and also when not in use for some time, i plug in a trickle charger, and condition them.

There you go, might not be that useful, might be.


Also, in the event of a bugger up, jump leads, how good are your jump leads? little halfrauds ones just not really suitable for the amount of power your using, HD ones maybe, but depends where you get the from.
Suggestion, when sorting your battery arrangements, replace main cables, buy some extra, and some good quality croc clips, and make a better set. Using anderson or similar connections on one or both ends makes it easy, and prevents the possibility of short circuits.

Jump Leads....

I had a frustrating time with a customers vehicle last week...

Customer dropped car off on Thursday night, I went to move it on Friday - Flat battery... Typically, Ellie had gone out in the Defender (taking my HD jump leads with her). No problem I thought, use the ones in the car.

WRONG!!!

Whilst they are OK for jumping cars off with, they are no good for power hungry LR engines - They are now in the bin.

I reckon you need cable of at least 35mm^2 CSA to carry the current, plus good croc clips.

On the plus side, I sold a new Odyssey to the bloke!

john what do you think to the Varta batterys?
www.varta-automotive.com

i currently have one of those,


cheer kieran

kieran wrote:

john what do you think to the Varta batterys?
www.varta-automotive.com

i currently have one of those,


cheer kieran

Kieren,
Standard Lead-acid battery for the masses... Nothing special, nothing more really to say - they'll start the car and come with a warranty.

One would be OK as your starter but not for "leisure" purposes.

so if i was to run that along side with an odessy battery would that work?
do you sell odessey batterys?
how much ?
do i get discount

cheers kieran

Hi Kieren,
An Odyssey would definitely run alongside another battery - no worries there. Have you decided on your method of split charging yet, as this will enable me to advise more accurately.


As for cost - its your lucky day... Lead prices have gone through the roof over the past few months and Odyssey prices have taken a BIG hike lately too. Fortunately I have some stock left over from before the price rise and so can let them go for the old prices. To compare prices you may want to look at the D44 site!! Note that the Devon prices are not over-priced, more over it shows the % price rise!

- Odyssey PC1500 is £175 inc VAT
- Odyssey PC1700 is £235 inc VAT

Note that once my stock has gone, new stock prices will be as per the price rise.

Needless to say, for anyone wanting top notch batteries... Now's the time...

£175

i was expecting about £60

i understand that odessys are really good, is there a cheaper alternative to suit my wallet?

i normally would have considerd that price but i have landy rally, leeds music festival and a cheap holiday with mates to pay for

what would happen if i was to run two varta batterys togather? the one i already have lasted a week of regular useages starting engine headlights.... when the alternator went pop after abingdon,

cheers kieran

It is possible to run 2 batteries in parallel (+ve to 9+ve) to increase capacity, however there are a few things to consider and isnt something I would really recommend unless you get 2 new batteries of the same type.
Firstly, if your batteries are dissimilar or or a different age, both batteries will have a reduced capacity as the new one will try to booster the old / less powerful one.
Likewise when charging. You will ever only charge to that capacity of the weakest battery.

I think, considering your budget, your best bet to get more oomph/capacity would be to make a crude split charge system - buy a 180A relay, some 35mm^2 wire & crimp-on connectors and pull the relay in from the alternator charge light - No intelligence but it will work satisfactorily. With regard to batteries, use your existing VARTA or buy a new one and then go to a caravan shop and buy a 110Ah lead-acid leisure battery.

Doing above will give you a starter battery that you must only start from and a leisure battery that you can use low power items from. Using the wrong battery for the wrong application though will quickly kill you batteries (all lead-acid's have this problem).

The one question you then have to answer yourself is which battery to you connect the spotlights to? If you have a couple of 55W bulbs (9A), connect to the leisure battery. If you have 4 x 100W's (35A) then defo the starter - but watch it doesnt run flat!!

Your other option is to bite the bullet and get 1 x Odyssey. No worries about which battery to connect to, no split charge system in the way. Only slight issue is less Ah, but on the plus side you get more reserve capacity so it probably evens itself out...

Decisions, decisions!!!