TDI Tuning?

I was wondering what other people have done, tuning wise, to TDI engines, and what experience could be shared on the matter.

I'm planning the following in the next few weeks:

• K+N Filter
  
• Improved intercooling
  
• Improved cooling
  
• Higher flow exhaust
  
• Electronic boost control
  
• Improved cold air intake
  
• Intake manifold pressure gauge, exhaust temperature gauge, oil pressure gauge, fuel ratio gauge
  
• Second alternator (rather than split charge)
  

Other than the K+N, which obviously comes from a shop, I'll be building or adapting all the other parts from stuff around the shed.
Anyone already done any of these? Made changes to fuel system to cope? Done things and not noticed an improvement? Done other things and noticed an improvement?

Any suggestions welcome.

well, K+N - don't bother, they make little difference IMHO, and with the high cost, can just replace standard at regular short intervals.

Intercooling, either buy a bigger one (Dom had a massive one in his last year) or give yours a good clean with parafin, does make a difference,

Cooling, i noticed a big bonus when i fitted my kenlowe, come sup to temp much quicker, then works well (after the problems with the temp sender on last years rally!) also when doig this, i took off the cowling around it which makes for much better air flow all around the engine.

Cold air, i'm looking at insulating my air intake pipes under the bonnet, either buy buying a proper sleeve for £50, or making one from stuff and alumin tape. is supposed to be really good, also looking at insulating the exhust manifolds, £50 for the kit.

i looked at fitting 2nd Alternator, but no space, my mate has had a go in his 200Tdi, but found it to omuch hassle, and split charge works just as well, esp if no major power draw fro mit. he used the mounting point that would have contained Air con compressor in 200Tdi bay for it, but instead, fitted an air con compressor, and now has on board air supply instead.

hope that helps a bit

Ta!

theshortwayround wrote:

well, K+N - don't bother, they make little difference IMHO, and with the high cost, can just replace standard at regular short intervals.

I do like K+N filters, having used them on motorbikes for several years, and a friend at a bike shop can source the can-ended 200 filters for £20, so thought I'd give it a go. Will delegate it to bottom of the shopping list.

theshortwayround wrote:

Intercooling, either buy a bigger one (Dom had a massive one in his last year) or give yours a good clean with parafin, does make a difference

The plan (at the moment) is to replace the original intercooler with a 300TDi intercooler which has more convenient angles on hoses, and move the cleaned 200 intercooler to the top above the alternator, then use fiberglass and aluminium to ensure good airflow through a hole in the hood. Am saving the parafin to use as fuel thinner, use chloroform for de-gunking

theshortwayround wrote:

Cooling, i noticed a big bonus when i fitted my kenlowe, come sup to temp much quicker, then works well (after the problems with the temp sender on last years rally!) also when doig this, i took off the cowling around it which makes for much better air flow all around the engine.

I think I might put a second, small, rad in on the heater circuit, as there is space, very little plumbing to change, and it'll work even if the thermostat fails (again).

There's the A/C fan on front, and if swapping out the engine fan helps, I may do that. Not sure about forking out for a Kenlowe - are they really that much better than vanilla electric fans?

theshortwayround wrote:

Cold air, i'm looking at insulating my air intake pipes under the bonnet, either buy buying a proper sleeve for £50, or making one from stuff and alumin tape. is supposed to be really good, also looking at insulating the exhust manifolds, £50 for the kit.

Air intake parts: HT Aluminium paint (HT, so you can use it on heat shields, too) on all the black parts that are facing exhaust/turbo will help until it's covered in mud, as radiated heat's more of a problem than convected.
I was going to try using the silvered bubblewrap from Focus (for behind radiators) to insulate the air filter box, and kevlar on the pipes near the turbo.
Juggling shops usually sell 50mmx3mm kevlar ribbon for lagging intercooler pipes or exhausts (actually they sell it for making fire poi, but generally don't mind why you buy it), or 20 feet of kevlar and a few stainless ties are usually about £20 on ebay.

theshortwayround wrote:

i looked at fitting 2nd Alternator, but no space, my mate has had a go in his 200Tdi, but found it to omuch hassle, and split charge works just as well, esp if no major power draw fro mit. he used the mounting point that would have contained Air con compressor in 200Tdi bay for it, but instead, fitted an air con compressor, and now has on board air supply instead.

I've already got the A/C compressor, which has space for another belt, so was going to put it there. Considering the rate Kieran gets through alternators, I figured 2 would be handy - if one fails, swap the wires over. I've also got a brand new one from a car in the shed, and will be putting quite a load on the second battery.

I like the idea of using the a/c compressor for compressed air, but I'm not so sure how you'd lubricate it.... Plus I was gonna stash a small scuba tank in the back for inflating tyres/blowing dirt out of things, but will look into that idea.

theshortwayround wrote:

hope that helps a bit

Yes. Thanks!

Cool, glad it helps.

K+N, great if can get that price, worth a try! i just couoldj't fork out £60 for a new 300tdi one.

The Kenlowe is great, i'm sur others are good, but it really is the mutts nutts!

I like te idea of the bubble wrap, if it will take the heat, sounds good, let me know, and i'll hold off on fidling about with tin tape!

Compressor sounds cool, as for alternator, i've been fins with 1, it is a bigun, 130amp, but i run prob as much electrics as keiran, and with the winch as well it's been fine, but i see your point!
Good luck with it all, be waiting for updates....

:arrow:

New set of silicone HT leads I'd suggest.

Hi we are the virgins.

Kenlowe fan! on talking to a guy who go to morroco every year he has said they are unreliable. we also went on to landy forum where opions where mixed.

we have put anti roll's on as we were not happy with amount of body roll.

we have seen articles on upgrades of the ecu's, bigger intercoolers, transfer upgrades.

your opinions would be welcome. Also tyres?

Paul & Chris

Tom Mc wrote:

New set of silicone HT leads I'd suggest.

Yes, Tom. I put those on already. They're orange. Honest.

oldbiker wrote:

we have put anti roll's on as we were not happy with amount of body roll.

Running with a lift?

oldbiker wrote:

we have seen articles on upgrades of the ecu's, bigger intercoolers, transfer upgrades.
your opinions would be welcome. Also tyres?

Last year we ran a Td5 with Dastek ECU piggyback, which made a _huge_ difference. Fuel consumption went down for general motoring, but we often turned the box off for long road stretches ... Overtaking and pulling out into fast moving traffic were ... well, possible!

There are parts of Landy Rally where a bigger intercooler will help, for sure, but as Steve said, cleaning out the standard intercooler is a good place to start.

Transfer boxes .... some folks had problems. Most didn't. Overdrive will be useful for the long road stretches, but if you're already got it and the gearbox and transfer box are in good health, just change the oil, and perhaps fit a magnetic plug so you can keep an eye on what's going on.

As for tyres, there are lots of opinions. The biggest thing to remember is "remoulds are like marmite". I like both Marmite and Colways. Kwik fit hate Colways, because they think expensive == good (and they are muppets).

We ran Colway AT's on Landy Rally 2007, but could have managed on decent road tyres. There wasn't lots of mud, unless you went in the off-limits ponds at Val d'Isere. It may rain this year, though.

If you change tyres, keep the old ones, and keep an eye out for some cheap rims so you can easily swap AT/Road if you're going to cover lots of road miles normally.

We'll be stripping out as much weight as we can and keeping CG low, and cheap/easy performance upgrades.

What flavour engine are you running, Paul?

we were thinking about going to J Ferns to upgrade our TD5.

I read an article about the scopion racing upgade but ther consider you need to service every 6000 miles.

after the rally we are going to morroco at christmas and then SA folowing May.

That is why I am asking may be daft questions to you guys. My last vehicle had two wheels and was a BMW GS 1150 adventure.

paul&chris

Know nothing about those smelly oil-burners of yours, but I do know Jeremy J Fearn has got a very good name in the world of upgrades. In a world where bad news travels fast, this has to be a big plus in his favour.

oldbiker wrote:

we were thinking about going to J Ferns to upgrade our TD5.

I read an article about the scopion racing upgade but ther consider you need to service every 6000 miles.

after the rally we are going to morroco at christmas and then SA folowing May.

That is why I am asking may be daft questions to you guys. My last vehicle had two wheels and was a BMW GS 1150 adventure.

paul&chris

Can I suggest that you give me a call re your TD5. We will save you money and will give you a better remap. Guaranteed!

Andybloke,

Performance gains from a Tdi are there to be had, but rather than spending loads of time making things and bolting things on just because they'll fit isnt the way to go.

As Steve said, forget about a K&N or ITG Air filter, expensive for what you get.

The first thing to do is replace the intercooler with an uprated drop in unit - DO NOT go for the full width ones that some of the performance people offer - they have too much of a detremental effect on cooling and only give you +7bhp over an uprated unit. The truth is that unless you spend money on a good uprated unit, you may as well leave the standard unit it and clean it out. Bigger units that arent designed for a Tdi will introduce more lag... one step forward, two backwards type thing.

Forget about Silicone hoses unles yours are knackered.

Tweak the fuel pump, pre-boost and boost screw but only after youve dropped a bigger interccoler in.

Exhaust, will be of benefit if you tweak the pump.

The 2 things to be most aware of when tuning a Tdi is temperature and reliability - Generally they go hand in hand. If you dont use the right intercooler, what is OK here in the UK may cook your engine when you get on those alpine drags.


As for a Kenlowe / Viscous unit. personal choice. personally I always use viscous.


If I were you this is what Id do:
1. Replace intercooler with our uprated replacement drop in unit
2. Tweak fuel pump
3. Remove centre section silencer and replace with straight through pipe.

Anything else will start to affect reliability.

Must aggree with all that Jon has said except for K&N filters. Of all the work that has been done on my car, the thing that made an instant difference was the K&N. Maybe this was due to all the other work having been done and it just made it breath better. Haven't tried removing the center box yet though.
I had over heating problems before the rally last year when towing or pulling up a long long hill. Washed the radiator inside and out, changed thermostat, changed viscous coupling. On the point of putting a Kenlow on when I decided to put a new rad on first, well it was cheaper than a Kenlow. With the new rad, NO problems on the rally, no problems towing heavy trailers. Sometimes mile after mile foot flat to the floor in 3rd and 4th gear and the needle just stays in the middle.
So my advice is, any doubts about your cooling system, change the radiator, £110:00 -£130:00 in all the mags. Can I recomend 4x4 Mail Order and speak to Chris, although they are all good down there in darkest Devon.

VentureOverland wrote:

The first thing to do is replace the intercooler with an uprated drop in unit

I'd love to be able to afford one!

Quote :

DO NOT go for the full width ones that some of the performance people offer - they have too much of a detremental effect on cooling and only give you +7bhp over an uprated unit.

Wouldn't do that. Not sure if I'm even happy with how much the A/C rad restricts airflow... Considering swapping that for a slim rad from an industrial unit.

How much does the increase in lag caused by a larger volume between the turbo and the manifold actually impact driving?
(I've been trying to figure it out... Given the air flow rate and the intake capacity I can't find more than a fifth of a second compression lag, but can't take into account the higher turbo speed due to reduced load as pressure builds...)

Quote :

Forget about Silicone hoses unles yours are knackered.

They don't come in green, so I'm using a combination of the original hoses, and 50mm alloy pipes/bends from an Ikea bed frame

Quote :

Tweak the fuel pump, pre-boost and boost screw but only after youve dropped a bigger interccoler in.

...and the EGT and AFR meters!

LuckyTrucker wrote:

Must aggree with all that Jon has said except for K&N filters. Of all the work that has been done on my car, the thing that made an instant difference was the K&N. Maybe this was due to all the other work having been done and it just made it breath better. Haven't tried removing the center box yet though.

Hrmm... We're back to a tie on the yay/nay K+N...
I'll ask my friend to order one in for me, and then we'll get a manometer on the intake and see how much difference it actually makes! If there's no breathing improvement, I'll ebay it

Quote :

So my advice is, any doubts about your cooling system, change the radiator, £110:00 -£130:00 in all the mags. Can I recomend 4x4 Mail Order and speak to Chris, although they are all good down there in darkest Devon.

That's a third of the budget! Anyone tried central heating descaler flush?
Hopefully the new thermostat's cured the problem.

[quote="LuckyTrucker"]
Hrmm... We're back to a tie on the yay/nay K+N...
I'll ask my friend to order one in for me, and then we'll get a manometer on the intake and see how much difference it actually makes! If there's no breathing improvement, I'll ebay it
quote]

Dont forget though that air flow is only half the story...

If your going to be doing any degree of travelling stick with a paper unit, at least you can remove them and clean them just by kocking them against something solid.

I have seen vehicles rendered useless in the bush because K&Ns get blocked and can't be cleaned (without the oil bath etc etc)... Then again if the car will never see dusty environments...

Turbo lag - its more of an irritation than a problem.

I think someone mentioned about putting a second intercooler above the engine somewhere - waste of time! Engine bays get hot, convection, etc etc...

Ha! now I know what a manometer is. Never heard of one before but I would guess it is the only scientific way of geting a result. I still stand by what I said about K&Ns though no matter what the result.

Cetral heating descaler! never even thought about that. What damage might it do to ancient solder joints and aluminium water passeges?
£130:00 a lot of money, but what price an overheated engine and what price piece of mind?
Best of luck.

LuckyTrucker wrote:

Cetral heating descaler! never even thought about that. What damage might it do to ancient solder joints and aluminium water passeges?

Well, it's safe for aluminium boilers, copper pipe, iron radiators and all the bits of brass, tin, lead, etc, that go with them... probably.

As my TDi's been allowed to boil dry in the past, it's probably got lots of stuck-on gunk in the whole cooling system. I'll have a look at the ingredients on the Holts rad flush stuff, and see if it's the same.

Jon...........

Whats the diference between removeing the rear box and running with the ceter one.
and
Removeing the centre one and replaceing with a straight through piupe but keeping the rear box?

I am led to believe that the centre pipe is only ther for noise and is in fact a straight thro.
whereas the rear box creates back pressure.

cheers

bill

(ps, how much is an uprated intercooler rad then?)

bofa bill wrote:

Jon...........

Whats the diference between removeing the rear box and running with the ceter one.
and
Removeing the centre one and replaceing with a straight through piupe but keeping the rear box?

I am led to believe that the centre pipe is only ther for noise and is in fact a straight thro.
whereas the rear box creates back pressure.

Good question... I just took a grinder and plasma cutter (disc wore down) to my old 'zaust to see what's inside... It doesn't answer the performance question, but it's interesting to see (or that could just be me).



Mid box: Silencer, into empty tuning cavity, into silencer.
Back box: Silencer.

The pipe goes right through the rear box, but is full of holes, and the box is packed with wadding. The mid box end compatrtments are the same ... kinda straight through, but not if you're a soundwave.

AFAIK (neglecting turbulance, compression waves, friction etc) :
The middle box will have a much higher resistance to exhaust, as there's a cavity in the middle for the pressure wave to bounce around (and collide with the next wave), with a very un-aerodynamic junction either side. The exhaust gas is mostly a stopping and starting flow until the mid-box, which behaves like a sponge. After the midbox it's more of a pulsing continuous flow, with the back box absorbing some of the sound from the leading edge of each pulse.

Jeeez Andy, I was gonna make ye an offer for the system ther.
Aw weil........

Aye, I was telt that the big box was simply for noise.
an the rear box offering back pressure to the engine.

No being very acedemic I dinna see the need to buy a large straight thro mid section at £60'sh jist for noise.

Is ther a performance reason?

But then, I am getting older. lol

bofa bill wrote:

Jeeez Andy, I was gonna make ye an offer for the system ther.

That's the materials for my exhaust mods, and probably a couple other welding jobs, that is!

bofa bill wrote:

No being very acedemic I dinna see the need to buy a large straight thro mid section at £60'sh jist for noise.

Is ther a performance reason?

Yes. At certain engine speeds, the mid box behaves like a pipe, at other speeds it behaves like a can of custard (but not as tasty).
Tis all to do with resonance, standing waves and other things more related to sound than diesel.

Not sure what would be the difference swapping the back box ... other than much less noticable.

There is no back pressure needed on a Diesel engine. Removal of one or all of the silencers results in 3 things. Firstly more noise!! Secondly it allows the turbo to spool up quicker and therefore reduces turbo lag. Thirdly it increases performance by allowing No 2.

Both boxes are for noise, but remove different frequencies.

I guess which you choose to remove depends on which falls apart first.

Most people I know remove the centre in favour of a straight through pipe as this has most effect on the turbo and leave the rear box in place. That said, until it gets sooted up it will be a tad noisy!

If you motor has a CAT on the down-pipe, remove that and replace with a striaght through unit as they are the most restrictive part of the exhaust and significantly reduce performance and engine breathing.

Cant help thinking that if you get up half an hour earlier and drive more economically (like we did in Monstar last year) then you acheive much the same. But like Bill I'm also getting old - at least that what Kieran would say if he wasnt keeping quiet. If you want to drive fast with more turbolated squishophony probably better to get something of more Latin origin ?

Hey Kieth , you can't be getting up any earlier, you need your beauty sleep you ugly old b****r
Although pot and kettle come to mind